A Discussion With OMERS CEO and CFO/ CSO on Their 2025 Results
James Bradshaw of the Globe and Mail reports OMERS pension fund reports 6% gain as weak U.S. dollar dents investment returns:Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System (OMERS) gained 6 per cent on its investments in 2025, lagging its benchmark but earning positive returns across most its portfolio in what chief executive Blake Hutcheson called “one of the most difficult years in my career to invest.”
The pension fund manager’s annual performance was hampered by a weakening U.S. dollar, which dragged returns down by 1.3 percentage points, and poor performance from private equity investments, which lost 2.5 per cent.
All other asset classes had positive returns for the year, led by a stock portfolio that gained 12.3 per cent, as public markets surged largely on optimism about technology and artificial intelligence.
That market optimism was overshadowed by political turmoil and wars around the world, as well as the disorienting effect that shifting tariff policy has had on investors. The uncertainty stemming from U.S. President Donald Trump’s protectionist push affected currencies, interest rates and asset prices, “and frankly, it impacted our day-to-day decision making,” Mr. Hutcheson said in an interview.
“All I want to know is that I’ve got an environment where someone doesn’t wake up and break your jaw,” he added. “Why I think it’s difficult now is it’s just so unpredictable, the goalposts keep getting moved.”
OMERS fell short of its internal benchmark for returns, which was 7.5 per cent, though currency losses accounted for much of that gap and aren’t accounted for in the target. OMERS was able to offset a further 70 basis points of potential currency losses by hedging against fluctuations in the market.
“Given all that ... it’s an acceptable outcome,” Mr. Hutcheson said.
OMERS invests on behalf of nearly 665,000 Ontario public service workers at school boards, transit systems, electrical utilities and emergency services, among other employers. Its assets increased to $145.2-billion at the end of 2025, up from $138.2-billion a year earlier.
The plan has earned an average annual return of 7.7 per cent over the past five years, and 7.1 per cent over 10 years.
Even now, the United States is “not a market you would ignore,” accounting for 26 per cent of global economic output, and it will remain a big part of OMERS’s strategy, Mr. Hutcheson said. “Having said that, it’s a cautionary time.”
OMERS is looking at whether it can “pivot to Canada” for some of its deals at a pivotal moment for the country’s economy – as long as any potential transactions meet the bar for risk and return that guides the fund’s mandate.
“We want to do more in Canada,” where OMERS has a home-field advantage and a significant portfolio of real estate and other investments, he said. But infrastructure investment has been harder for the pension plans, with too few opportunities that they deem to be attractive.
“Actual opportunities have to be put on the table,” he said, and OMERS is “encouraged that those are on the horizon.”
OMERS’s global infrastructure portfolio gained 6 per cent last year.
In private equity, buyers and sellers are starting to be more realistic about what companies are worth, chief financial officer Jonathan Simmons said. But for deals to pick up, company profits need to start rising in a meaningful way, and interest rates need to stay low.
For private equity investors, “it was a very difficult year, let’s not kid ourselves on that front,” Mr. Hutcheson said, and a full recovery for the sector could take years. “This doesn’t turn on a dime.”
OMERS had stronger performance from its private credit book, which earned 8.3 per cent in 2025. More recently, stock prices for large private credit lenders have wobbled as U.S.-based Blue Owl Capital Inc. halted redemptions for one of its funds and sold a US$1.4-billion portfolio of loans to several pension funds, with OMERS reportedly one of them.
The fund declined to comment on Blue Owl’s sale, but said it has stuck to a strategy “to hold the pen on credit underwriting and not to give it away, and that is serving us well,” Mr. Simmons said.
OMERS improved from being 98-per-cent funded in 2024, based on projected payouts to pensioners, to 99 per cent at the end of last year. The plan expects to be fully funded soon, and to manage $200-billion of assets by 2030.
Layan Odey of Bloomberg also reports OMERS earns 6% as stock gains offset losses from private equity, U.S. dollar:
Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System returned six per cent last year after gains from stock holdings and private credit more than offset private equity losses and a weak dollar.
That brings its net assets to $145.2 billion last year, up from $138.2 billion in 2024, the pension said in a statement Monday.
“Volatile currency markets create challenges for many investors who invest abroad,” chief executive Blake Hutcheson said in the statement, adding that decisions to hedge currencies helped “limit the foreign exchange impact on our results to negative 1.3 per cent, driven mainly by the strong decline in the value of the U.S. dollar.”
Public equity holdings gained 12.3 per cent last year, while private credit and infrastructure delivered 8.3 per cent and six per cent returns, respectively. Investments in private equity lost 2.5 per cent, compared with a 9.5 per cent gain in 2024.
The pension plan has revamped its private equity group over the past two years, including hiring a new global head, halting direct buyouts in Europe and cutting a team focused on the asset class in Asia.
Earlier this month the private equity arm agreed to sell specialty care management company Paradigm to Patient Square Capital, and in December CBI Health, one of OMERS’ longstanding portfolio companies, agreed to sell its home-care business to Extendicare Inc. in December.
Omers said that it is “well-positioned” to invest in Canada and that it’s seeking “near-term opportunities in Canada that will support both our objectives and the country’s growth.”
The Canadian Press also reports pension fund manager OMERS earned six per cent return for 2025:
TORONTO - Pension fund manager OMERS says it earned a six per cent return for 2025, helped by the strength of its public equities and private credit investments.
The Ontario fund manager says its net assets grew to $145.2 billion at Dec. 31, up from $138.2 billion a year earlier.
OMERS chief financial and strategy officer Jonathan Simmons says the portfolio generated steady performance against a backdrop of significant political and economic uncertainty, particularly around trade in 2025.
Simmons noted that six out of the fund’s seven investment asset classes delivered positive returns, led by a third year of double-digit returns from public equities and another strong year for private credit investments.
The pension plan’s smoothed funded status improved to 99 per cent, up from 98 per cent in 2024.
OMERS manages the defined-benefit pension fund for employees of municipalities, school boards, local boards, transit systems, electrical utilities, emergency services and children’s aid societies across Ontario.
Earlier today, OMERS released its 2025 results stating it earned an annual investment return of 6%, or $8.2 billion, net of expenses:
OMERS, the defined benefit pension plan for Ontario’s broader municipal sector employees, earned a 2025 investment return of 6%, or $8.2 billion, net of expenses. Net assets grew from $138.2 billion at December 31, 2024 to $145.2 billion at December 31, 2025. The Plan’s smoothed funded status improved to 99%, from 98% in 2024, using a real discount rate of 3.70%. Over the past 10 years, OMERS has averaged an annual investment return of 7.1%, net of expenses, adding $73.9 billion to the Plan, and contributing significantly to improving the Plan’s funded status.
Steady progress in 2025“OMERS performance in 2025 demonstrates the resilience of our plan amidst a turbulent market. Since becoming CEO, I have been proud to lead a team committed to delivering enduring value for our 665,000 members by maintaining a disciplined investment approach. Over the past five years, we have generated an average annual net return of 7.7%,” said Blake Hutcheson, OMERS President and CEO. “Our 2030 Strategy positions the Plan well for further success in the years ahead. We expect to have $200 billion in net assets by 2030, and will be more than 100% funded.”
OMERS is diversified by asset class and geography, and this broad asset base helps to insulate the Plan through the challenges that each market cycle brings. In any given year some asset classes will perform more strongly than others, depending on market and economic conditions.
“Our portfolio served us well in 2025 generating steady performance against the backdrop of significant political and economic uncertainty, particularly around trade. Despite this, six out of our seven investment asset classes delivered positive returns, led by a third year of double-digit returns from public equities and supported by another strong year for private credit investments,” said Jonathan Simmons, OMERS Chief Financial and Strategy Officer. “We continue to navigate a persistently challenging private equity market.”
“We are pleased to see a recovery in our real estate portfolio, with good performance in office and retail, as the industry emerges from several difficult years,” remarked Hutcheson. “Volatile currency markets create challenges for many investors who invest abroad. We are certainly not alone in facing this issue, particularly as it relates to the U.S. dollar. Active decisions to hedge currencies protected 70 basis points of our return for the year. This helped to limit the foreign exchange impact on our results to negative 1.3% driven mainly by the strong decline in the value of the U.S. dollar."
Ready to Invest More in CanadaOMERS is well-positioned to invest across geographies of focus, including in Canada where we expect new opportunities to emerge.
“This is a pivotal time in Canada. As a nation, we have a significant opportunity to build a stronger and more resilient future, and OMERS wants to be part of that. We are a proudly Canadian pension plan with a deep history of investing in our home market. We like the advantage that our relationships and on-the-ground expertise offer,” said Mr. Hutcheson. “Any transactions we might undertake will have to meet the high bar we set for managing the Plan on behalf of our members, but we aspire for near-term opportunities in Canada that will support both our objectives and the country’s growth.”
Building for the FutureFunded status is a key measure of the Plan’s long-term financial health.
“The improvement in OMERS smoothed funded status to 99% was attained while at the same time strengthening provisions to pay pensions by an additional $2.2 billion to reflect longer life expectancies,” said Simmons. “Canadians—including our members—are living longer and the Plan is ready to meet their retirement needs in the decades ahead.”
Our work continues to prioritize initiatives that safeguard future returns. OMERS is reporting a 65% reduction in its portfolio carbon emissions intensity relative to the 2019 baseline, and increased its green investments (as defined in the OMERS Climate Action Plan) to $26 billion.
Making an ImpactA recent study by the Canadian Centre for Economic Analysis found that OMERS 2025 activities in Ontario generated $15.3 billion in provincial GDP, supported more than 135,000 jobs, and positively impacted 1 in 11 households. Across our investments, pensions, and corporate teams, OMERS employees continue to look for ways to innovate and deliver on our pension promise with excellence.
“Our members, who work to keep our communities healthy and safe, face a world that feels more complex every year. Our job is to provide a stable source of retirement income that helps bring them peace of mind,” said Hutcheson. “We have built a Plan that sees through cycles, periods of uncertainty and decades of change. I am proud of the way our teams have invested with conviction, provided excellent service to our members, and provided promised pensions, on time and as planned, for almost 65 years.”
OMERS is highly rated across independent credit rating agencies, including ‘AAA’ ratings from S&P, Fitch, and DBRS.
About OMERS
OMERS is a jointly sponsored, defined benefit pension plan, with more than 1,000 participating employers ranging from large cities to local agencies, and 665,000 active, deferred and retired members. Our members include union and non-union employees of municipalities, school boards, local boards, transit systems, electrical utilities, emergency services and children’s aid societies across Ontario. OMERS teams work in Toronto, London, New York, Amsterdam, Luxembourg, Singapore, Sydney and other major cities across North America and Europe – serving members and employers, and originating and managing a diversified portfolio of high-quality investments in government bonds, public and private credit, public and private equities, infrastructure and real estate.
Net Investment Returns for the years ended December 312025
2024
Government Bonds
2.9%
1.0%
Public Credit
3.9%
6.0%
Private Credit
8.3%
12.6%
Public Equities
12.3%
18.8%
Private Equities
-2.5%
9.5%
Infrastructure
6.0%
8.8%
Real Estate
5.1%
-4.9%
Total Net Return
6.0%
8.3%
Asset MixAs at December 31, 2025
Assets by Geography
As at December 31, 2025
Investment Performance Highlights
Over the year ended December 31, 2025:
2025 Highlights
Currency detracted 1.3% from our returns, particularly impacting public and private equity. The U.S. dollar depreciated against all other G7 countries in 2025, marking its worst annual performance in years, weakening almost 5% against the Canadian dollar over the year. Our active decisions to hedge our currency exposure protected 70 basis points of returns. This currency management strategy, combined with our diversification in the euro and British pound sterling, mitigated some of the negative U.S. dollar impact on the portfolio.
Our ongoing strategy to allocate funds to fixed income contributed to our overall returns. Government bonds, public and private credit each delivered positive performance primarily due to interest income and a decline in bond yields.
Public equities delivered double-digit performance from core large-cap holdings in information technology, communication services and financial sectors, with most other sectors contributing positively.
Private equities continued to face a challenging market. Deal market activity was low and valuations continue to be impacted by slow earnings growth and headwinds within certain industry sectors.
Infrastructure continues to deliver steady results. While the majority of our portfolio performed well, headwinds on select assets softened the asset class return.
Real estate delivered a positive return after a series of challenging years for the industry. Results were supported by strong operating fundamentals, particularly in office and retail.
By the numbers
Transactions in 2025
2025 investment return of 6%, or $8.2 billion, net of expenses
$145.2 billion in net assets
10-year average annual net return of 7.1%
665,000 OMERS members
99% smoothed funded ratio
3.70% real discount rate
$6.8 billion total pension benefits paid
We are reporting a 65% reduction in the portfolio carbon emissions intensity, relative to 2019
$26 billion in green investments (as defined in the OMERS Climate Action Plan)
97% OMERS member service satisfaction
99% Employer satisfaction
93% of employees are proud to work for OMERS and Oxford (+5 points above best-in-class)
OMERS remains focused on deploying capital in line with our target asset mix. We are a disciplined investor in high-quality assets that meet the Plan’s risk and return requirements. Highlights of transactions made in 2025:
Announced the acquisition of a Manchester industrial estate from Network Space Developments. This transaction was the first for the newly formed Oxford Properties and AustralianSuper joint venture.
Completed offerings of EUR 1 billion, 10-year term note at a yield of 3.253% and USD 1 billion, 5-year term note at a yield of 4.434%.
Participated in the Series B financing round for Float Financial, a finance platform for Canadian businesses.
Acquired full ownership of a high-quality, $1.5 billion Western Canada office portfolio.
Announced a transformative co-investment of over $200 million to retrofit the existing office buildings at Canada Square in midtown Toronto.
Broke ground on the first major purpose-built housing project in Scarborough in over a generation. The development will consist of three residential towers of 1300 units with the aim of delivering critically needed housing, including a 21% allocation for affordable housing.
Completed Canada’s largest co-op housing renewal project in Vancouver.
Participated in a US$275-million private investment supporting Xanadu Quantum Technologies, a Toronto-based leader in photonic quantum computing.
Completed the inaugural senior unsecured bond issuance for BPC Generation Infrastructure Trust (BGIT), the holding company for OMERS investment in Bruce Power. The offering totaled C$1.5 billion.
Secured €770 million in new debt facilities at Borealis Spain Parent B.V., the holding company for OMERS ~25% stake in Exolum.
We rotate capital out of assets with the same level of discipline with which we invest. This activity generates capital, which we deploy into future investment opportunities that align to our strategy. Highlights of realizations announced or completed in 2025:
Completed the sale of a 9.995 per cent stake in Australian electricity network firm Transgrid to the Future Fund Board of Guardians.
Sold our stake in London City Airport.
Announced the sale of CBI Health LP’s home care business to Paramed Inc – the closing of the transaction is expected to be completed in Q1 2026.
I had a chance to discuss OMERS' 2025 results with CEO Blake Hutcheson and CFO & CSO Jonathan Simmons earlier today so let me get right into it.
I want to begin by thanking both of them for taking the time to talk to me and also thank Don Peat for setting up the Teams meeting.
Blake began by giving his his high level overview:
The punchline is 6%, we made $8.2 billion. We have about 3000 people, by the way, about about half and half Oxford and OMERS. And I often remind them that when you make $8.2B and in a good year, it's north of 10 with a small handful of people, they're all making a difference. And we have a great team in the country, and I'm proud of them.
We had last year, quite honestly, it was one of the most difficult investment environments that we've ever that I've ever experienced and and the punchline for me is, as a business person and an investor, I don't ask for a head start. I didn't ask for a leg up. I don't I don't ask for anybody to give me an advantage. I just need to know the rules of the game. And if I know the rules of the game, you know, I, I we owners in Oxford, I like our odds to compete with the best of the best, and an environment where there's tariffs on, off, geopolitical, you know, shifts, not only in the US and Canada, but around the world. Most of our markets are having, you know, is Starmer going to make it? Who's the next? You know, President of France? Like all these markets, the geopolitical turmoil, the tariff turmoil, and the impact of, you know, policy decision making changing on a dime has been, has made it extraordinarily different, difficult, and it's it's hitting our currencies, it's hitting our equities, but most importantly, or notably, it hits our day to day decision making. You know, which you know, where do you allocate capital? Where do you hold back? Often, with partners, they may have a different view because, because they're getting confounded by the change the same way we do, some of our banks and counterparties may have a different view.
And I just never seen an environment where you didn't have a predictable future. And as I often say, just don't break my jaw.And this has been a jaw-breaking environment for I think all of us as significant investors in a Canadian and global context, and given that background, I think our results demonstrated to us our resilience and our power of diversity. And so I'm not unhappy with the circumstances.
Given that context as a long term player -- and you always hear us focus on the long term -- I genuinely, you know, try to ignore one year in a row. I pay a lot of attention to 3, 5 and 10 years in a row, and our 5-year average has been 7.7%t. I watched that one carefully, because we, you know, I came, I came here in 2020, our our 10 year return is 7.1% and (over this period) we returned over $74 billion to the plan to to go straight to our funded status. Our 2-year average is 7.2% and I look at our funded status, we've come a long way from being low 8% funded 20 years ago to 99% this year, and and counting. And so we we even improved our funded status this year, which is positive, after making some significant changes to our liabilities, about a $2.2 billion more conservative liability adjustment. And so I'm, I'm hopeful that in a year or so, we will properly celebrate 100% funded status.
And that's how we're measured. That's how we're judged. We look at our liabilities, we look at our direction of travel. And when we get 5% real, which translates into the seven plus that we've had for, you know, five and 10 years, when I looked at 2030 we'll have a significant push in over 100% funded status, and will have left OMERS in a much, much healthier state than how we found it not so long ago.
Six out of our seven asset classes were in the black. Our (public) equities team performed well, our credit team performed well, our Infra team performed well, our real estate business, and you've asked me this every year, has turned the corner.
Our big difficulty, as you can see last year, was PE, and that is a symptom of many, many of the PE companies that you cover in a global context, the bid ask spreads were wide, the cost of money is still quite high. It's been an unpredictable environment for them to to invest in and aggregate and so no excuses. It's the work in progress for us, it is the one that was most painful for us to endure in 2025.
He went on to add:
The other notable for us is our plan benchmark was 7.5% this year. When we set those benchmarks, their currency agnostic, if we, if the US and Canadian currency had stayed flat, we would have been closer to 8%.
We ended up with an protecting about 70 basis points or hedging strategies, but it still cost us 130 basis points, because we certainly aren't going back to a period where we edge 100% and so when I look at our operating plan, did people do what they were supposed to do? They did. Did currency have an impact that has been that prevented us from meeting that plan? 100%. And those things come and go from one year to the next. I'm not saying we can take it one year and blame it the next. Nonetheless, it was particularly difficult year to understand the direction of travel, given what what trends translated from the US and the US policies.
A couple more ideas. We remain 55% committed to the United States. We still believe, you know, they're 26% of the global GDP, their fiscal and monetary stimulus at this point in history is going to ensure that, at least for the foreseeable future, their markets are strong for most of the assets we invest in. Over time that exceptionalism may wane for all the reasons that we know, but for the short term, you know, we remain committed to lots of assets, lots of counterparties in that market, and we've got deep friendships there. Notwithstanding, when people read the headlines, they're Americans, are great friends, are great friends, and our great partners.
But we want to do more in Canada. And we have, as you know, a significant portfolio here, sometimes with partners. But you know, Banff Springs, Shadow Lake Louise, Jasper Park Lodge, Shadow Whistler, you know, Yorkdale Shopping Center, Square One, Scarborough Town Center, 20% of the office market A class product in Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto. Bruce Powerr, the largest nuclear plant on the planet, 31% of the power supply for Ontario. Ontario land registry, city. System here, a little piece of the MLSE, as you know, you know, some really good PE businesses, some really good ventures investments.
So we are, we're really committed to Canada, but we want to do more. And we're, we're encouraged when we look particularly at our infrastructure and and real estate, books and pipelines, that there's a lot of the offer there that we hope to get, get over the top, because we like the rule of law. We believe in this country.
We believe in the future this country. We like a lot of the signs we're seeing as as you know, with this new government and the direction of travel with proper economic seeds getting planted for the first time in a long time. So I hope you'll read more in the future Leo that we're doing more in Canada. We're certainly seeing the prospects, and we're certainly committed to it. And maybe I stop there.
I noted that most of the Maple 8 funds lost money on currency last year because they don't fully hedge or partially hedge and that's no big deal over the long run but sometimes in a pivotal year like 2025, it can cost you serious basis points.
Still, I'm a firm believer in US markets and the greenback over the long run so I don't put too much weight on a year like 2025 where the greenback slid for all sorts of reasons.
I told Blake and Jonathan the only concern I had with OMERS results last year was what happened in private equity, was the -2.5% loss concentrated in one or two assets? What's Alexander Fraser (global head of PE) doing right now? Because everyone I'm seeing is shying away from purely direct investments where they own a controlling stake to invest and co-invest with top funds because competition is ferocious and they need to maintain allocation and reduce fee drag.
Blake responded:
It's hard to turn a freighter on a dime. And our process in looking at our PE business started really a year and a half ago, where we said, let's look at the business plan, what am I great at, how do I get in the way of a trend given limited resources? And we still feel we can stand up and compete heavily in Canada, the United States, in the spaces that we've defined as areas of expertise in PE and we were very clear that in Europe, we didn't feel that we we had a team that could compete at the same level.
We have a direction of travel to dispose of those assets, not in any fire sale way -- as you know, our balance sheet strong enough we never have to -- but over time, as it makes sense, and the money we liberate there goes back into funds, or fund like structures or co-invest structures. And so that takes time, and in the US, what we just found was that, you know, from a valuation perspective, there are very few data points, because the bid ask spreads so far that the market is softened. The things that did get traded, traded at lower multiples, and with the uncertainty that's being created from policy and tariff threats that we've all seen, it had an impact on values.
And to be perfectly honest, we have some really great asset, we have some good assets and we have some not so good assets in the in the 25 that we hold. And so, like any time in my life, the great assets hold their value, and the not so good ones, ultimately, the market catches up to them. So, some of that's gone through the river with us.
So with Alexander, he's he is a bright guy. He's leading, getting his arms around it. We did take some writedowns. It wasn't, it wasn't one or two big ones. It was more incremental adjustments to try to get our portfolio to meet more with the market comps and environment that we're experiencing, and this is going to be a two or three year build for us. It's not it's not going to happen overnight. We will do more co-investment, we will do more funds, but we also have staged a team that in the verticals we're good at, we think we can compete very directly and competitively in North America.
I asked Blake if they are accepting third-party assets in that asset class and he told me they only accept in infrastructure and real estate (where they have a lot... "Oxford has $40 billion in third party capital and Infra has some co-investment relationships").
I moved on to real estate noting Eric Pliesman has rejoined Oxford from HOOPP to be the CEO and President. i also noted even though commecial real estate delinquencies have risen in the US, REITs are on fire this year, Blackstone's Jon Gray is positive on the asset class, and it looks like things are looking up again.
Blake replied:
You know the story. I mean, Oxford averaged 12.5% returns for over 10 years from 2010, to 2020, we built a business there. There was a $17 billion domestic company, 7 billion of equity, 7 billion of debt, three of third party, and turned it into a now $85 billion business.
It was primarily Canada. Now it's, you know, it's about 30% Canada, and it was primarily office and retail, and now it's got great diversification between retail and office and industrial and multifamily and hotels and credits.
So I've always believed that Oxford is is one of the greater, one of the top five real estate businesses in the world, frankly And Covid hit, and we stepped in some bear traps during that period as a platform.
The bear traps are behind us. The team's been changed. The go forward economics are favourable. Cap rates have stabilized, are coming down. The cost of money stabilized, coming down. And like any of these markets, I alluded to it a bit with private equity. I look at it as a K, and the top end of that K for great assets, their trajectory is so favourable, and the bottom end of that K for lower quality assets, it's not so favourable. It's going the wrong way.
And the vast, vast majority of our book and Oxford is favourable. I think it has turned the corner. Real estate's become an 8% or 9% business, not a 12.5% business, for the foreseeable future. And you know this being in the black is an indication of what I've seen coming with the changes that Dan Fournier made over the last three years, where we had him there, we can see it turning the corner.
We've taken our writedowns. We've got a great strategy and a great team back in place. So it took, it took us a few years to turn it and I it won't happen overnight, Leo, but this business is is on its way back, and it's going to remain a significant contributor to OMERS for the future.
In Infrastructure, I noted what happened at Thames Water and said "I hate writing about Thames Water" but had to cover it. I asked them if they took the writedown there back in 2024 and how that portfolio is doing.
Blake responded:
OMERS Infrastructure is $30 billion, 22% of our assets. Like Oxford, it's a it's an extraordinary business that we've we've built up for over 30 years, close to 40 years. And so, you know, I would put our team against any in the world to compete. We will, you know, when you have 30 children, and I tell this story often, Leo, Jonathan's laughing. I grew up on a street in my hometown where a family is...
LOL! I stopped him right there as I heard that stories at least five times (when you have a family of 10, one or two kids are superstars, 6 are average, 2 or 3 a problem makers).
Blake continued:
You are always going to have some of those good ones and not so good ones. So Thames Water was a good example. We're fighting through a couple others right now that that will be, you know, we are deeply focused on that are going to be, you know, we really got to nurse them through a difficult period and, and when you have a couple of those, and you know, if, 10% of your book is is causing a grief, that's probably the average.
Jonathan interjected: " And we have some great ones that no one wants to write stories about."
Blake added: "And many spectacular ones that there's no problem bragging about because no one wants to write about it."
I said it reminds me of what my uncle, a devout Christian, once told me long ago: "You only read about pedophile priests in the news. The media never covers the thousands of priests all over world doing God's great work, helping the poor and disenfranchised, their sacrifices are largely ignored."
Blake went on:
The delicacy with infrastructure is it also relies on consistent counterparties. both contracts and people's word, you know, and Thames Water, to be perfectly honest, was a regulator who didn't stand up to its obligations and and that's very difficult in the western democratic society. When that happens to you, and concessions in general require people's word meaning something. So it's a more delicate world today than what we grew up with. Having said that our word means something, our handshake means something, our portfolio has been built on these relationships. We continue to believe in infrastructure as a fitness and and we want to do more in this country.
On that point, I shared with Blake that I'm generally supportive of Mark Carney's government but I'm growing increasingly impatient on big projects and wondering when are they going to get the ball rolling in a meaningful way to privatize airports and other infrastructure assets.
I asked Blake if there's anything he can share on the record and he replied:
I can say publicly, Leo that for the first time in many years, we are seeing genuine interest from both provincial and federal governments to finally move some things forward and I'm optimistic that that will take place. To your point, the proof will be in the pudding. And to your point, sooner is better than later, but I do remain optimistic and we're all having those conversations at a level that we haven't experienced in a long time. All right, so stay tuned. Okay.
Glad to hear this, it needs to get done sooner rather than later.
Next, I asked Jonathan what is going on in private credit where I noted events surrounding Blue Owl Capital and some people like John Graham warning that underwriting standards have become fast and loose in some corners of the private credit market.
Jonathan replied:
Well, I'm not worried about OMERS. And the reason why I'm not worried about OMERS is our strategy is to hold the pen on every credit we underwrite ourselves, and not to invest through funds where others have control of that for us. That means that we apply our own underwriting standards. We do deal with some relationships with third parties who bring us transactions to look at, we evaluate them all ourselves, and we underwrite them to our standards. And so what I can tell you about our book is I'm very pleased with the quality that I see. We're pleased with the performance that we've had. We've been nudging up our allocations of capital into that book. But we do see issues out there in the market that, frankly, are impacting our book, but which are impacting others. And so, like you, we're reading and we're hearing about that, but I'm not worried for OMERS.
Blake added:
We really are disciplined about not adding a blank check within some four corners of an agreement, but rather doing our own due diligence and underwriting on every loan of substance and so far Leo, our delinquency and default record is is superior. And that really is encouraging.
I ended by noting this:
I know you guys keep getting criticized about not investing enough in Canada, but we covered all that, those angles as well. I foresee you and rest of Maple 8 are going to get criticized for not beating the S&P 500 pr S&P TSX. And your response would be, we're not there to beat the S&P every year, we're there to meet the liabilities of our pensioners. Is that correct?
Blake responded:
Thank you. And our plan, which you've also heard me say multiple times, is 1,2,3,4,5. Between now and 2030, our ambition is to be 100% plus a cushion funded. Our $150 billion, roughly, will be $200 billion of equity. Three stands for three continents, very prescriptive strategies. If we can't be great at something, we don't go there. Four for $400 billion plus of AUM. We are moving fast approaching half a trillion dollar enterprise between now and 2030. And to your final point, five stands for a 5% real which we've been able to deliver for five and 10 years, respectively. And when you look through and go back to the first objective, we will be significant. We will have a significant cushion in our funded status by delivering a 5% real, and we're measured by bridging that gap and giving our pensioners some optionality and a big cushion, not by some other metrics or some other, you know, abstract number that doesn't pertain to our known liabilities. So that's the that's the message.
Great way to end our discussion.
Once again, I thank Blake and Jonathan for a great discussion and Don for setting it all up.
Below, worry in the private credit market continued Monday after Blue Owl last week permanently closed one of its tech-focused funds — preventing investors from withdrawing their cash every three months as they’d previously been allowed. The firm began selling assets to return investor capital.
It’s the latest sign of tumult in a $1.8 trillion market stricken with worry about overspending on artificial intelligence, the technology’s disruptive power and lending standards more broadly. And it’s evoking comparisons to the run-up to the 2008 financial crisis. Bloomberg News Senior Editor for Credit James Crombie joins Bloomberg Businessweek Daily to discuss. He speaks with Carol Massar and Emily Graffeo.

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