The Boys Club of Tech Perpetuated by Foreign Worker Visas

It is 2013 and a dirty little secret is once again coming to light.  Silicon valley is devoid of women computer scientists and engineers.   It all started at a tech conference where two men in the audience were engaging in tech's typical juvenile sex jokes chatter with a woman techie sitting right in front of them.  She, unlike many women, who suffer in silence when alienated and ostracized by such continual boys club dialog, tweeted the banter to the world, along with a photo of the guys.   As a result of her very public call out she was fired.  Now this is a woman who already ran a blog, But you're a girl, known to speak out about misogynist tech culture and clearly her employer knew that upon hire.  Yet the kneejerk reaction of Silicon valley is to fire the woman, belittle the woman, blame the woman, bemoan the woman instead of being aware women have to listen to male geek sex jokes daily.  The two men were doing what is a daily practice in Silicon valley, talking loudly about forking and dongles, banal technology concepts, as sexual innuendo.  Other women techies called out the firing.

Who knows what went on in the minds of SendGrid management. But it seemed like an awfully kneejerk move, a clear attempt at appeasement to the troll armies. And however you may disagree with how Adria handled the incident at PyCon - and there is ample room for disagreement - the reaction against her specifically was wildly disproportionate, explicitly gendered, actively threatening and puts all the blame on her. PyCon, which responded to her tweet and immediately removed the men in question, has gotten off pretty unscathed.

Even more extreme, the hackivist group anonymous showed their true colors by issuing a demand letter the women be fired and blamed her for doing what many women in tech has thought of doing, confronting the Tech boys club culture.  So that's the bottom line, boys can say stupid things and if women confront them, they will be fired.  If it is public enough, one of the guys will be fired.  This is over stupid banter during a conference that happens ever minute of every day in the world of tech.  In terms of discrimination, such boys club chatter is trivial in comparison to the real problems for women in technology.  Yet, the message generally is people will be fired for saying stupid things and reacting to stupid things that are the fabric of Silicon valley culture.  This event illustrates one very good reason there are so few women techies.  One can lose their job over something that could be addressed by a few mandatory lectures on subtle sexism and misogyny along with a slap on the wrist to wake people up.  Instead people lose their careers completely disproportionate to the offense.  The entire event typifies why Silicon valley is hostile towards women.  For the guys, these actions create terror that they may lose their careers over saying something around a female techie that is the daily conversational fodder of tech work culture and is standard issue to socially engage with one's tech peers.  Like any club, there are certain social rules to show one belongs and saying stupid, silly sexist, misogynistic things is almost required to be accepted as one of the gang.

Is the tech sector interested in actually dealing with the real things that matter to diversify the industry?  Of course not.  Instead of confronting equal pay for equal work, glass ceilings, technical belittlement, professional ridicule, discrimination in hiring, evaluation and achievement, we have policies which only force people to watch their P's and Q's, terrified they will be fired for saying the wrong thing.  Just recently the first female CEO of Yahoo made sure she will have fewer women techies by denying remote work.  Other corporations refuse to allow kids at work, help with daycare, flex time and other perks to make managing one's responsibilities with a demanding job possible and less stressful.  In other words, many of tech companies act like there must be the little woman at home to take care of all the family responsibilities while the male works 80 hours a week.  Have you ever heard of cases where a woman innovator's achievements were dismissed or worse, assigned to a male colleague?  Those are the things which matter and why there are so few women and U.S. domestic diversity in tech, yet this latest event will only focus on what should be made public and what decibel is low enough to not be overheard.

With that, what should be front page news instead of the above absurdity is this Congressional testimony about foreign guest workers being almost exclusively male.  Corporations claim a worker shortage, all the while increasing the barrier to entry for women.

Let me warn the Committee about the obstacles which the H-1B visa program creates for American women in STEM fields. We all know that there is a serious gender imbalance in science, technology, engineering and math. Some of this is outright discrimination. Some of it can be attributed to the hostile environment that develops when a professional field is closed off to women, or any other underrepresented group. Some can be directly traced to cultural pressures and negative social stereotypes of intelligent women, all of which we try to overcome through our Women in Engineering program.

But clearly, disincentives to hire an American woman for that first STEM job are a huge obstacle to moving up in the field. It is hard to get promoted when you don’t get hired in the first place. The existence of this preferred pipeline for new hires has a hugely discouraging effect on independent American women considering STEM fields.

The vast majority of H-1B workers are men. Everybody knows this. The IEEE-USA represents more American high tech workers than anybody else, so we have sources. One from inside the industry, looking at the offshoring companies that dominate the H-1B program, is that their global hiring is 70% men. But in the U.S., where outsourcing companies get more than half the capped H-1B visas, the ratio is more like 85% men. That's outrageous.

As an engineer, I don’t like making decisions without hard data. The IEEE-USA has been trying for months to get the actual data on this from DHS. They have been stonewalling us. It’s a simple question: how many women get H-1B visas? We are still waiting on our Freedom of Information Request. But it's a scandal that we even had to file one. When you think about it --why doesn't DHS already know exactly how many women get H-1B visas? If a major immigration program effectively discriminated based on race or national origin, would that be okay?

Norm Matloff took it further on the statistics to show, turning the U.S. educational system into a green card ATM is not going to stop gender bias.

For example, see Chips and Change, a 2009 MIT Press book by UCB economist Clair Brown and her coathor Greg Linden. In Figure 6.4, they show EE PhDs by gender and citizenship status, 1995-2004. Among the noncitizens, the male-female ratio is always at least 7::1, often 9::1. Those are considerably worse than the 70% figure she cites as known for the bodyshops, and somewhat worse than the 85% figure she speculates for them.

To show that gender and U.S. domestic diversity discrimination is systemic in Research and Development Engineering, CNN tried to obtain diversity data and even with a Freedom of Information act were denied.

How diverse is Silicon Valley? Most tech companies really, really don't want you to know, and the U.S. government isn't helping shed any light on the issue In an investigation that began in August 2011, CNNMoney probed 20 of the most influential U.S. technology companies, the Department of Labor, and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, filing two Freedom of Information Act requests for workforce diversity data.

A year and a half, a pile of paperwork, and dozens of interviews later, we have a little more insight -- but not much.

Most of the companies stonewalled us, but the data we were able to get showed what one might expect: Ethnic minorities and women are generally underrepresented, sometimes severely so -- particularly in management roles. White and Asian males often dominate their fields.

Our investigation demonstrated how difficult -- and sometimes impossible -- gaining any insight into Silicon Valley's employee diversity can be. It shows a general lack of transparency in an industry known for its openness.

What CNN managed to get from five companies they displayed in an interactive graphic.  The graphic shows there is a serious lack of domestic diversity in these companies.  Unfortunately, what their graph does not tell you is the job title and diversity within those job titles.  Most tech companies do have women, but in support roles.  When it comes to R&D engineering, it's common to see no women techies at all.  There exists entire large engineering divisions where the only women around are secretaries.

Will Congress put U.S. equal opportunity above the never ending drumbeat for more foreign workers?  No they won't.  Silicon valley gives way too much in campaign cash and other perks and out of the window goes yet another American value.  Corporations can fire people willy nilly over stupid things, yet when it comes to changing their policies and corporate culture, nothing will happen, as long as they cannot be successfully sued that is.  We can bet corporations will pay plenty for marketing their corporations as great places to work and spend millions with corporate attorneys writing discrimination and harassment policies and handbooks, all the while not hiring women engineers and importing male foreign ones.



Equal opportunity in Silicon Valley

Thanks for writing this article, Robert.

It really hit the nail on the head.

The "Little Woman at Home" comment made me smile. I worked flat out as a mixed signal communications integrated circuit engineer for ten years (after getting a Masters in EE), then was happy to be the "Little Woman at Home" for a few years and now again work as an engineer.

That woman shouldn't have been fired for saying she is exasperated with hearing about "big dongles", etc. I do think that if some of these guys had to endure daily "shop talk" and off color comments from female bosses and colleagues, they might get that the "doggle" like innuendos are maybe not the best idea in a business setting.

The bigger issue is that women are often not taken seriously as technical equals. That is probably why this women reacted so strongly. Sexual innuendo combined with marginalizing and exclusionary behavior is what really wears women down.

As you point out, it is very common for women to be sidelined and not get credit for their technical contributions. I know that men also experience this, but it somehow seems that women are the greater victims.

The childcare issue is huge, both for men and women. In Silicon Valley we embrace the notion that we must work 80 hours a week and never take time out for our kids. Yet, somehow, other countries such as Germany manage to be technically productive on a 40 to 50 hour work week with generous vacation. The consistency and dedication of their workforce must be partly contributing to this.

When I was younger, I didn't realize seriousness of the discrimination issue in Silicon Valley against mothers. When I finally had a child in my early forties, the full weight of Silicon Valley's FEAR OF WORKING ENGINEERING MOTHERS came home to me. I'd endured the usual "how many children do you have" questions, but even this did not prepare me for some of the sentiments that I was to encounter. The extent of the problem came home to me in a technical meeting with a business leader (who also happened to be a well known professor at Stanford) who openly stated in front of a room full of engineers (including me) that since a colleague's wife had three children, she should not complain about not being able to get a job and shouldn't complain when her workaholic technical engineering husband has affairs. He himself had divorced his wife, the mother of his four children, in order to marry his mistress. Quite noticeably, he had maneuvered so that his wife did not benefit from the exercise of stock of "his" start up companies.

This seems to pass for acceptable behavior in Silicon Valley.

There certainly are many wonderful men in here. I'm married to one. But there is enough of these enfant terrible CEOs, who seem to float to the top of some SV companies, to still perpetuate a men's club culture.

No surprise then that these same CEO's favor a program that allows them an ample supply of young male (mostly childless) workers.

The hiring of young, mostly male H-1B workers has a significant negative impact on the viability of STEM careers over the long term. It makes it more difficult for engineers to re-enter the workforce after taking time out. Since women are more likely to take time out for their families, it is we that are disproportionately displaced by the hiring of H-1Bs, who are mostly young men.

I've gotten to know a lot about different cultures because of the diversity that immigrant engineers have brought to the North American talent pool. I've mostly enjoyed this. I once had a wonderful Serbian chain smoking mixed signal IC boss who was a verteran of Motorola's wireless division. At school, a close friend was a survivor of the Pol Pot regime and another escaped Iran and would otherwise have died at Evin Prison. I cannot state strongly enough that the problem is not the H-1B workers themselves. They, like me, just want to do their job and find a reasonable chance for themselves.

The problem is the exploitive H-1B program and the business leaders that continue to lobby for it.

I'm not against the H-1B program per se, but I don't think it is being used as originally intended. It was certainly not intended to be used to displace American engineers and residents and lower their wages.

I'm glad the IEEE is finally speaking out.

Again, thanks so much for writing this article.

IEEE testimony isn't good except for this part

I have links in the above article where I number crunched from the same DHS data and I also called up DHS and demanded to know the demographics based on sex, age, race and was also blown off when they have to have this information as part of the process.

I was absolutely thrilled to see someone, finally, raise this up in Congressional testimony. That said, other positions from the IEEE are really aweful for U.S. STEM, such as instant green cards and turning the U.S. educational system into a path to a green card. Bad idea and is really going to hurt US STEM.

That completely ignores the situation in Academia also being discriminatory against women engineers, from entrance, to marginalized, to the fact they seem to favor foreigners who will take $14k a year stipends which no American can live on.

Green cards are another disaster for equal opportunity and will certainly squeeze out American women and U.S. domestic diversity, and overall anyone with U.S. citizenship from graduate school in the first place.

Yeah, anyone who has worked in the tech sector knows what happens and unfortunately there are way too many who don't get why she would blow up in the first place, what is wrong.

But yes, position, money and being enable to technically achieve are way more important than assisine shop talk.

Great description of the attitude towards single mothers. We've analyzed a host of Census data and it all points to systemic work discrimination against single mothers. That's absurd and as you point out, Germany, France, Finland and so on all take it as a matter of course people have families, children and adjustments are made, including allowing nearby daycare.

BTW: Don't use your full name. Like it or not, it has gotten way worse for one to say what they think online in terms of corporations and hires. It's wrong, they have no business Googling what people say or their facebook page and so on, but they do.

Case in point, this article. She got fired for a tweet with a photo out of a personal account, nuf said.

This site does not reveal anyone's email or sell any registration information to 3rd parties for that reason. So people can say what they think and have a conversation without worry of reprisals.

Women outside tech are still fooled

One of the things I think is terrible for women in technology at the moment is that there has been such a PR campaign on the part of the Brookings Institute, Kauffman Foundation, and even many in the Democratic Party, including Nancy Pelosi and Zoe Lofgren, for very high skilled immigration, with a complete disregard for women STEM professionals.

These entities continue to sell the idea that there is a huge STEM shortage. They continue to say that there is a shortage of "programmer" and that American engineers and scientists are inferior to foreign STEM professionals and therefore that we must quadruple the number of H-1B workers.

What has reach the point of chagrin for me is to hear my women friends outside of engineering and science echo this same illogical, distorted thinking. Many are in HR, program management and marketing and are working in the technology industry, but are not actually doing science or engineering. I see many women in this position. They have bought into the Brookings institute party line and are not aware that they are being duped. They will openly say that graduates of American universities are incompetent and lazy. If you try to tell them otherwise and that we need to back off on very high immigration, they will quickly label you a racist. That has how far this propaganda campaign has gotten.

H-1B hiring has already harmed American nurses. Soon, it will penetrate the marketing/HR/program management ranks and these women too will have trouble staying employed.

Many women, who tend to be democratic leaning, as I am, will effectively vote themselves out of a job.

A few women will survive at the top, propped up by the power elites, in order to make the dog and pony show look inclusive.

I put Meg Whitman, Marissa Mayers and Sheryl Sandberg in this class.

It's amusing when people call Americans lazy - until we respond

@Notmyrealname, friends and family should know the truth by now. You should call them out and shoot down the lies every chance you get. 22,000,000+ great unemployed Americans with PhDs, BAs, military experience, STEM degrees, international experience, multiple language skills, kids to feed and homes to keep, etc., etc. need it now. Ask those who slander Americans as "lazy" why vets compose one of the biggest groups of unemployed? They were good enough to defend the Nation and every citizen, but somehow they are too "lazy" to get hired in their own country? What bullsh*t. Slander by plutocrats and anyone that spouts it.

I enjoy the 1 or 2 seconds of pure comedy as the clueless spout things they hear on TV or the radio or from politicians. Spouting mantras and propaganda from people that never busted their asses anywhere ever, but continue to rake in millions and think collecting bribes or meeting at country clubs to sell out their country is "work." Friends, family, colleagues, politicians, plutocrats can speak, but if they continue to spout lies and sh*t, then they need to be responded to ASAP. Shoot them down, point-by-point.

Everyone is replaceable, EVERYONE. Anyone sitting in front of a computer doing a job can be replaced by a 12 year old kid making soccer balls today in Pakistan, doing some American's job tomorrow. If not some 12 year old, a computer program, If no program, they'll just leave the job vacant while demanding tax subsidies or destroy it so some CEO can collect a $20 million bonus until he destroys the company completely before bailing out. Big CEOs love unemployment rising, creates pressure to lower wages and increase profits. Anyone earning a salary can be replaced with an intern that might actually work for free (even with advanced degrees and years of experience). Some professions, like nursing, have people actually pay to work for experience. So, who's above being replaced now? No one. No one should feel safe, smug, or above the struggle.

It's no longer about quality or patriotism, the plutocrats and their puppets care about profits and power. Same with any politician, if they ask too much in bribes, a plutocrat will just pay a more willing puppet a little less. And so on.

This is what happens when greed and corruption rule the day. Relatives don't let relatives believe lies at the expense of the USA, friends don't let friends sound like idiots. Call them all out, spread the truth. It may be uncomfortable, and you may burn some bridges or lose a few "friends," but it's either that or go along with the program as this Nation is betrayed by half-wits and criminals who want sheep and nothing more.

women STEM

The discrimination, bias is so ingrained in Silicon valley, it's unreal, the assumptions are always "chicks can't code", right out of the box and if one confronts anything and they are female, they will be called a "psycho bitch". I'm sorry group Anonymous, but their "demand letter" drips misogyny as does most of Silicon valley.

Most of the guys do not even realize how bad it is, they don't even get what's wrong with thinking "chicks can't code" and if you say something, stare at you blank faced like WTF is his problem man, it's concrete brain.

In the 1980's some corporations did a great job of retaining diversity talent and also had many seminars to make people wake up. No job threats, not public embarrassment, simply mandatory seminars to expose the mentality and change it. Guys are not true misogynists, sexist jackasses really, geeks are generally socially clueless so they just don't even get, even see what's the deal. A few seminars, awareness will pull most out of their Forking stupor.

More women enemies of women techies

Add to that list the names of Carly Fiorina and Hillary Clinton, ( who could not get enough H-1B's for Bill Gates), just like her husband, Bill, who I voted for and shame on me, could not get enough of NAFTA free trade. HR departments generally look down on engineers as troublesome unmanagable nerds who lack "interpersonal skills" like effective lying, cheating, manipulation, politics and "diplomacy".

Manipulative Women Executives in Silicon Valley

Yep, I'm all too familiar with HR departments that undermine the engineering teams. These women HRs (they are usually women) make a special point of being condescending and unsupportive of women engineers. They often undermine wage negotiations. They usually block complaints about discriminatory behavior and side with the executive teams.

Actually, their jobs depend on sucking up to the executive team so the company doesn't have to come clean on their dysfunctional work environment.

Sandberg is COO, not HR, but her role is the same. She's there as a buffer to soft peddle the company to the outside world and at the same time, probably to pave over issues of a dysfunctional work environment. Think that Facebook is a good place for women to work? Google "Katherine Losse".

I'd rather deal with a couple of goofs making dongle jokes any day compared to dealing with these lying and manipulative women executives. At least it's honest. Actually, I probably would have turned right around to those guys at the python conference and said LOUDLY "Are you sure it is a BIG dongle we're dealing with here?"

Again, I get why it is annoying to have to listen to these jokes, but seriously, it's a jungle out there. Dongle jokes are the least of our worries.

We are being fooled by websites/books such as "Lean In" and

I, for one, don't need a lecture from Sheryl Sandberg on working harder or being more confident. I need Sheryl and her boss, Mark Zuckerberg, to stop depressing my wage and bargaining power by engaging in direct lobbying in Washington for more cheap, H-1B, mostly male STEM workers.

Sheryl, might I remind you that your degree is in economics, not computer science or engineering? You were coddled along at Harvard by Lawrence Summers at Harvard. Yes, the same guy who was fired from Harvard for telling everyone that women can't do science and math. You are an advertising executive. Facebook sucks as a user experience. Your stock is falling. It's in the 25s and is dropping like a rock. No one cares about your book and in two years, it will selling used on Amazon for $2.00.

worst than the guys to get to the top

HR are hatchet people generally. That said, it seems way too common for women who get to the top to be worse than the males towards other women.

I don't get that, but I don't get how some mothers can stand by and let their husbands kill their daughters claiming "honor killing" or blame their daughters, shun their own flesh and blood if she has been assaulted and so on.

Weird juju. Ladies are over 50% of the U.S. population and if they would band together and act in concert, instead of those phony organizations that won't even utter the word discrimination, ya all would probably get somewhere. Seems like one lone wolf speaks truth and then the onslaught goes after her, she's solo.

Bottom line women techies are paid less than their male colleagues as well as seen less in terms getting the critical projects, given team leader roles, regardless of their CV.

I just saw that a Facebook site (why would anyone create a blog on Facebook?) called I love F**king Science, the author revealed herself to be female and generated hundreds of thousands of derogatory, sexist, misogynistic comments. CBS this morning did a story on it.

I had no idea it was that bad out there that a long established science blogger, just by revealing her sex behind whatever funky online id/name she used would generate such an onslaught of hate.

The situation for women STEM clearly is much worse than I realized just from that event alone.

Good point that the few female executives get in from the sidelines, from politics and connections vs. running up the ranks of techville. Too many blocks to get up the ranks of techville. What's happening in VC land with women presenting their business model and prototype to get funding?

Look at UK + France for future of immigration problems

This goes beyond tech. Look at any country that has basically unregulated and/or massive influxes of people without limits. White collar, blue collar, whatever. The UK and France have major problems in their society now. There's a reason there are borders, immigration policies, limits, civics classes, socialization prescribed over periods of time. Because without those limits and integration of people into the broader society, we will now have problems where large groups of people bring over same issues they had in their countries of origin. The UK has problems with caste prejudices. In the UK? Caste problems? And those problems stretch into work and neighborhoods, hiring, firing, etc. France's issues were shown to be out of control with the riots and violence over there. Sweden has problems with huge influxes of immigrants that came from countries that are basically polar opposites from Sweden, resentment against certain populations in Italy, Greece, Germany, and so on.

Controlled immigration is not just about jobs. It's also about preserving social fabric. If people don't have jobs, they get pissed + desperate. If they don't have a job and are purposely unemployed so a visa holder can replace them, they of course are angry. So know you have a citizen upset and his family poorer. Then someone who was raised in society that might tolerate racism or sexism or discrimination against certain classes brings those issues with him here and into the workplace. To say nothing of potential ties to crime or corruption, etc. that a % of immigrants will have in any country (not all, not a majority, but enough to require actions from law enforcement, social services, fiscal policy changes, etc.).

So the whole open borders, free immigration is great is pure crap. It destroys jobs, creates unemployment, and can actually cause social chaos that flies in the face of "all immigrants are superliberal and will bring love and justice everywhere they go." Some will, some most certainly won't. And we deal with the consequences because businesses and politicians just don't care.

Write your Congress representatives daily

They are going to pass massive foreign guest worker increases, plus turn the U.S. educational system into a "employer" based green card ATM and they are pushing hard to do it.

The only hope regular working people in America have is to right now, write, go to townhalls, walk into your local Congressional offices, flood their faxes and complain loudly.

They don't care about the labor statistics, the market conditions and they especially do not give a damn about the U.S. worker, at any skill or professional level.

It is not a matter of looking at France at the moment, it is a matter of trying to stop Comprehensive Immigration reform. This is not about "amnesty" or "pathway to citizenship" at all for some here illegally. It is all about flooding the U.S. labor market and this is when there is still a massive jobs crisis.

They use the illegals to try to hide what they are really doing and to push through this corporate offshore outsourcing/cheap labor agenda.

Zuckerberg can meet with Governors - we can't

See what money gets you - access that we can never get if and when we write to our Senators, Congressmen, Governors, etc. all day, every day. We write to help prevent the destruction of American CITIZENS that aren't corrupt and don't have access. They write and legislate and meet for the opposite effect. We write about jobs, foreign affairs, unemployment, immigration to our "representatives" - endlessly. And the responses we get are nothing if they aren't form email responses.

Money buys access and laws while the constituents are completely ignored.The article shows it all, Zuckerpunk has meetings and access no one else can get (without $) and that he isn't even allowed to get (Zuckerpunk ain't living in NJ). Now he and Bloomberg and the rest of the corrupt crew can dictate policies for us? What gives them the right? Nothing, only $. If you don't live in NJ, Christie doesn't want to hear from you (and if you don't have $, don't bother - look at the videos of him bashing average NJ citizens - he wouldn't have the balls to do that to Zuckerberg from California). Same with Congressmen and Senators (email systems prevent it) or any politician from other states' citizens. Even when they allow an email, it will generate a BS response. But apparently Zuckerberg has sway with the NJ Governor, and has meetings with him? No shock there. $ talks.

If an Indian citizen running a company in India wants Obama to allow more visas, he'll listen, Christie, sure, they count more than his own citizens. Same with Cuomo, Brown, whoever and wherever. D & R all suck, all act like traitors. $, it's what runs this country as it swirls down the bowl like a turd. We didn't do it, greedy/corrupt politicians and vile plutocrats are forcing it on us, and now how do resist when democratic outlets are denied to us? What peaceful choices are left to us?

Fighting back

Robert, how do you think that we can fight back? I think that you have begun to do so with this wonderful website.

So many of us that participate on the web adding commentary to online news sites project our opinions awkwardly without the polish of professional public relations methodology. I believe that we can better fight the fight with a more polished approach

I would like to see more sites like this, but in order to be sustainable, those sites need to generate the revenue necessary to support it.

we're an economics site and a news source

That's really the deal on here, but we author on economic and labor related topics often contrary to what the MSM is saying. A lot of number crunching, statistics, facts and the site motto is "no economic fiction".

That said, there isn't much labor organization among professionals and the results of that are obvious. Politicians don't think twice about trading away their jobs!

So, for this site,you can share the articles to other places for people to read, but in terms of organizing, it's just a mess. On H-1B the IEEE is selling out U.S. workers by claiming "green cards" will not harm U.S. STEM, when they clearly will, flooding the labor market is flooding the labor market. Then you have the AFL-CIO, but professionals are almost an afterthought and they are much more interested in getting illegals legal and members of their main unions. Then, there are groups like NumbersUSA, which is about reducing immigration period to the U.S. and you can choose your topic and they send out various action alerts. There is "bright future jobs", but I don't know much about what their position is. Seem some good stuff about discriminatory "H-1B, or OPT only need apply" jobs out there.

For now, I think in terms of action is to spread the facts, far and wide and most importantly get people to take some action. Calling up their representations, going to town halls, visiting their Congressional offices, faxing and so on.

It would be nice to see an organized protest by U.S. professional labor, out in the streets, getting media attention but professionals do not like to be called "racist xenophobes" and that is the weapon used when anyone dare speak about labor markets, supply, jobs, security.

Welcome to EP!


Skylar did it to herself with her passive-aggressive uptight victim routine. She got a guy fired and probably ruined his career as well. DId it ever occur to her to tell these guys just to tone it down or STFU instead of running to authorities/big brother to fix all problems?

That's what a guy would do. Not make it a PR spectacle and whine fest.

Or maybe just move. Yes, a novel idea.

Her feminist friends like Adria Richards did her no favors either.

And the jokes were just lame as can be. If she got torqued over them, Skylar should come with a big red warning sign saying "anything you say, can and will be used against you".

As for diversity among H1-B workers. Who cares, that's about as irrelevant as it comes. The fact is these people are taking American jobs away. They are a threat to our country and people, it doesn't matter if they wear a skirt or trousers. It's like wondering if the Coral Snake that's about to end your life is female or male. It doesn't matter, you're doomed either way.

your misogyny is showing dude

You don't get it do you on why that's a big problem for women to have to listen to forking jokes during a presentation. It does matter because dude, chicks can code and would you say such crap around your mother? Didn't think so!

Although I agree that the entire thing was blown out of proportion, who cares if she tweeted in 2013 some asshat behavior and should anyone been fired over this? Of course not. Should she has received hate crime threats for what she did? Are you kidding me? All that did was prove her point, dudes, if you wouldn't treat your mother that way, then, odds are you've got your head stuck up some place where the sun don't shine on your attitude.

H1-B's, L-1's, H-2's, 0's ect.

If you check the age of these males you will see, they are also used to aid in age discrimination.

age of H-1Bs

That was obtained and listed in one of the links where we cranked the numbers. Age discrimination is very clear as is discrimination by citizenship status. In other words, if you are an American looking for a job in your own country, they will not consider you.

Most people with jobs still deny age discrimination

Like every other issue, confront people with jobs about age discrimination and they'll deny it because they want to believe they are special and have unique and outstanding skills that no one else in the world could possess. It helps calm their minds because as they age and approach the danger zone of being fired, reality is too uncomfortable to admit.

Taleo and other ATS software makes it so easy to just input parameters barring anyone of any age from progressing. Any date on any resume makes it easy to eliminate those over 45 or 30. Anyone with math skills of a 5 year old can weed out people deemed ready for "Logan's Run." Take any job and apply online. Just change the dates of education and employment by 20 years. Watch as someone can apply for 4+ years with nothing/no response, and someone in their 20s can get hired within weeks. Yes, it happens.

People will respond with "but it's illegal, they can't do that." In denial much? Speeding is illegal, so is robbery, murder, littering, perjury, arson, vandalism, etc. and yet. . .
People like to blame health insurance and everything else. Plenty of people in their 60s+ are in better shape than an 18 year old that eats fast food daily or doesn't exercise. And why are the 50+ year old CEOs at big banks and other corporations destroying the globe exempt? Are they in much better shape and kicking ass at Gold's Gym?Does their steady diet of caviar and champagne and sitting on their asses make them healthier?

Quite frankly, it's about skills/insecure management and wages. People with skills and a clue pose a threat to companies that want to hire drones and carry on business as usual. People that advance in their careers at a certain point earn too much for their bosses and management to tolerate them anymore (big salaries are only for the big bosses). Just imagine, if JP Morgan and Wells Fargo want to launder money, are they going to hire a 50 year old with experience in banks and law enforcement for an anti-money laundering role? Will News Corp. hire someone that knows all about FCPA and duties to report it to govt. officials? Or will they pay someone that is much younger and will be easier to control with promises of "a long career" if they do as they are told?

Mediocre and weak individuals don't want people that have more experience and skills that will outshine them through their work and ideas - that's threatening. Despite all the happy BS press on Linkedin, Forbes, CNN, weak bosses want mediocrity around them that will make them look good by comparison. Articles like that don't sound pleasant, but the truth in 2013 is far from pleasant. "Overqualified" proves the point, but tries to dress it up and blame the applicants for having skills and experience. Be mediocre or worse, corporate America and politicians want nothing more.

You can say that again. I'm

You can say that again. I'm an American with a MS in computers and a fistful of technical certifications. IT companies won't respond to my resume, much less grant an interview. Why should they, when they can hire someone from Asia for a quarter of the salary?

If you're an intelligent American, don't go into STEM work. Try medicine or finance instead.

Forget medicine, law, finance, anything - it's all screwed

No answers, if they can replace someone with a computer in the US or overseas, they will. No field is safe, thinking about it thinking people should be scared crapless and sick to their stomachs. Honestly don't know what to tell kids in the general population to do, those thinking about marrying and having kids, or basically anyone out there that's not part of the oligarchy that can screw up entire nations and never lose jobs or a dime. Dystopia is here, today, not tomorrow, today. How to invest or care about a country, build and maintain a society in this nightmare? There are answers, but those in charge won't stop the madness because they get rich off the status quo.